Tuesday, January 28, 2014
Let's take a look at another Van Eyck
The painting below is known as Lucca Madonna. It was completed by Jan Van Eyck (who we should be familiar with by now) in the year 1436. I think saying that it is an oil painting would be way too common, don't you think? What can you find about this piece that is interesting and what is your reaction to it?
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I was wondering what the reason behind Van Eyck depicting Mary nursing Jesus. Naoe Kukita says that it's meant to show an intimate relationship between divinity and humanity.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.medievalists.net/2011/03/13/the-web-of-marian-symbolism-the-iconography-of-jan-van-eycks-lucca-madonna/
This certainly is a very intimate moment. It is interesting that at that time, a wealthy queen would not have nursed her own child but would have hired a wet nurse. Mary was by no means wealthy so I think that this implies that her queenship must be a spiritual one.
DeleteI feel that the colors are warm. Also Mary is sitting on a thrown.
ReplyDeleteI also found interesting is the detail on the thrown behind them. It's very detailed!
DeleteThe throne seems consistent with ways Mary has been portrayed in the past, don't you think?
DeleteI found it interesting that Mary is depicted in a very different manor in this painting. Yes, she is sitting on a throne with baby Jesus upon her lap, but she is wearing a long crimson cape which is a far cry from the blue we usually see her wearing. I also found it interesting that Jesus is positioned on the right side because we so often see him on the left.
ReplyDeleteInteresting thoughts. Any way to find out if the red is significant?
DeleteSomething I found interesting was that the lions on the arms of the throne are symbols, once again for the reference to the King of solomon. My reaction to this overall piece is a sense of calmness.
ReplyDeleteIsn't it interesting that once we know the iconography we can see it pretty readily when we look at paintings we have studied.
DeleteSome iconography I found out is this painting of Mary and baby Jesus known as Madonna and Child is called the Throne of Wisdom, I think the reason it was called the Throne of Wisdom might have been because the way Mary is holding baby Jesus on her knee along with the fact that Jesus was the Son of God and knew all thing and had such great wisdom, that with Mary, his mother, holding him on her knee is like he is sitting on a throne. I agree with Susan, this painting gives a calming feel to it along with a very motherly and peaceful touch.
ReplyDeleteI agree. I'm not sure if it is the mix of warm and cool colors or the fact that I feel like I have been allowed to view a very intimate moment here.
DeleteI think it is the mixture of colors and possible the light coming through the window showing us the time of day with the sunshine.
DeleteI wish there was a like button for your thoughts but alas, this is not FaceBook (thank goodness).
DeleteI saw a religious symbol which was the huge bright red robe on the Madonna it is representative of the blood of Christ my reaction to this art work is calm and a mother mother taking care if her child
ReplyDeleteThis is a good observation. Red continues to be a significant color but in today's American society it has a totally different mood.
DeleteSome interesting pieces of iconography I see in this painting are the four lions carved into the bed posts. I'm guessing these relate to the tribe of Judah or Jesus himself as they are both represented by lions at various points in the Bible. To me, they also seem to give off a feeling of harmony, as they add to the throne's symettry and are posed in a calm yet alert manner. ~ Wade Rittler
ReplyDeleteSorry, somehow I didn't notice that Susan had already referenced the lions as symbols. With that being the case, another part of this painting that interested me was the size of the room itself. Most depictions of Mary and Jesus show them in large, spacious areas whereas this painting shows them in a very confined space. The smallness also makes me feel as though this piece was intended to seem more personal than others for the room's size makes it appear to be secluded... as though Jesus and Mary are having a private, meaningful moment. ~ Wade Rittler
DeleteIt is indeed a very small room. Any idea Why such an intimate plane? Is this just part of the International Gothic Style?
Deletei view this piece as very symbolic. As well as Susan viewing the lions as representing Jesus as the Lion of The tribe of Judah, i see that as well. But, I don't see Van Eyck depicting Mary, the mother of Jesus, in such a way. Jesus' mother has always been depicted as being very pious. I don't think she would have ever let anyone see her this way, no matter how loving and tender the moment is. I see another Mary in this painting; Mary Magdalene! It has been speculated that Mary Magdalene was the secret wife of Jesus and they had a child together. Of course this is all speculation, but true to Van Eyck's style, he loved to get the mind wondering. If Jesus Christ did father a child through Mary Magdalene, the child would most certainly be an heir to the throne. With Jesus being the King of Kings, that would make Mary Magdalene his queen. Mary Magdalene has always had the reputation of being a bad girl of some sort so it wouldn't be unthinkable that she would even consider baring her breast to feed the heir to the throne. To portray Mary, most blessed among all women would be kind of insane for Van Eyck; or would it? ~ Terrance Neal
ReplyDeleteAh! But Mary was sometime very much depicted in this way (see van der Weyden on page 581 and Fouquet on page 586). I think that while you have an interesting supposition, the idea that Mary Magdalene was a secret lover is a current day thought and not one held by those commissioning art in the Fifteenth century. The interest in turning people's thoughts to the humanity of Christ was one of the big paradigm shifts of this century. It was done intentionally to help them identify with Him as a real person with real life emotions. The one thing that you have mentioned is an absolute certainty - Van Eyck's style was to create more questions than answers and shake things up a bit. He certainly has done that here.
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ReplyDeleteA lot of the space in this piece has been filled with Mary's red robe. I've seen stuff about symbolism, but to me it seems almost impossibly large. It's very ornate and rich, which is fitting with the rest of Van Eyck's works, and the style at the time.
ReplyDeleteThe throne, the clothes, and the fancy carpet are from Byzantine tradition of depicting Christ and Mary as royalty. While the mother-child aspect is supposed to help the viewer connect, the viewer is not supposed to think of them as "common" people
There is a real difference seen in the Germanic style. It is here that the artists prefer to use red instead of blue for Mary's garments. As you remember with the Vesperbild, the Germans were more concerned with the passion of Christ than his royalty. The red is a symbol of this passion.
DeleteThe first thing i noticed when i saw the painting was the layout of the portrait being somewhat similar to that of the altar pieces of Duccio and his teacher. (In accordance to the scenery looking somewhat like a throne.) Also i find it quite refreshing to see Mary portrayed without so much blue in her garment.
ReplyDeleteMiguel, please look at my comment above on Christine's post so you can understand why red instead of blue.
DeleteI believe that the position on the baby Jesus in the piece is also a but of iconography, in the way that he is closer to the open window with sunbeams shining through it, as if to say this child is bathed in the light of God, and closer tot he outside world.
ReplyDeleteI think you are right and Van Eyck uses the light to help lead us to his intended focal point.
DeleteUsually when an artist depicts Mary, they paint her in an idolized way, perfect and flawless. Or in Duccio's case, he used a real model to capture life in his painting. Upon researching the painting, I discovered that Van Eyck actually used his wife as the model for his Mary. I find this interesting because it seems like a moment that could have happened every day that he captured to live on. Also, its an oil paint, which became common around this time! :P
ReplyDeleteThank you, Zach for sharing the bit about it being an oil painting. We were all a little confused by that.
DeleteActually, the bit about him using his wife as a model is an interesting bit of trivia. At this time that would have allowed him to show a more intimate moment since it will not be common until a bit later to have nude models posing.